tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post795807045849478684..comments2024-03-25T08:41:57.698+13:00Comments on Kiwi Hellenist: Dying and rising gods: are they a thing?Peter Gainsfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17448862214081111386noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-2890135755689336012022-12-20T14:32:09.716+13:002022-12-20T14:32:09.716+13:00Or, you know, people who pay attention to a little...Or, you know, people who pay attention to a little thing we call 'evidence'.<br /><br />I mean, it sure sounds like you want people to <i>take it on faith</i> that Jesus is based on other gods ...Peter Gainsfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448862214081111386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-88903139382506128642022-12-18T16:05:01.428+13:002022-12-18T16:05:01.428+13:00The only people trying to debunk the similarities ...The only people trying to debunk the similarities of god myths previous to the jesus myths are evangelical Christians( or ignorant Christians). They know it essentially destroys the Christian myth. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-30944044414455724302022-11-16T14:02:36.715+13:002022-11-16T14:02:36.715+13:00Kind of silly reading this website trying to discr...Kind of silly reading this website trying to discredit “dying and rising” gods previous to the silly jesus myth. Yes, the jesus myth was exactly based on previous pagan myths. It’s painfully obvious to everyone who studies this stuff. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-31039104520318441222021-06-13T15:28:57.980+12:002021-06-13T15:28:57.980+12:00What if you're all over intellectualizing some...What if you're all over intellectualizing something with a political agenda, whether trying to claim Jesus is a plagiarism or that he is historic and stands in his own right, while missing the larger story.<br /><br />This larger story being that a Gnostic Cosmic Christ is a reality, that Orisis, Adonis, Krishna, Quetzalcoatl, Jesus, etc. Are all the same being that returns in cycles, and Christophernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-16698232516088225872021-04-19T10:38:41.622+12:002021-04-19T10:38:41.622+12:00All of what you say about Inanna is made up, and t...All of what you say about Inanna is made up, and there's no point addressing claims that have been spirited out of thin air.<br /><br />But I do want to say that I don't agree I was being defensive: I literally cited her as a genuine example of a dying-and-rising god.<br /><br />Citing her as a model for Jesus, though, is like citing Olmec mythology as a model for Paul Bunyan. It's Peter Gainsfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448862214081111386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-23308627862826378412021-04-19T10:13:06.042+12:002021-04-19T10:13:06.042+12:00I discovered Inanna/Ishtar only a year ago. She is...I discovered Inanna/Ishtar only a year ago. She is the original story of death and resurrection. Her timelines coincide with the Christian holidays of Easter. Her star/planet - is Venus - a star turned into the Polaris as a symbol and given to the star of Bethlehem. She wears a crown that seems very similar to later representations of halos and the crown of thorns. Her mythology in almost every Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14882181935100333571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-87249838267589728842021-04-19T10:08:47.644+12:002021-04-19T10:08:47.644+12:00You just mentioned him like 20 times in this reply...You just mentioned him like 20 times in this reply lol. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14882181935100333571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-16905573537123485412020-08-15T23:22:08.700+12:002020-08-15T23:22:08.700+12:00This is a great article. My own knowledge of thes...This is a great article. My own knowledge of these matters comes mostly from Ovid and the Roman elegists, so I thank you for deepening my understanding. <br /><br />The male DRGs often have about them an air of sexual ambivalence: not homosexuality or transsexualism, but a complicated asexuality, being extremely attractive to women yet indifferent to them, or even positively repulsed.<br /><br Patriciushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15169301271873028070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-78094471015949125862020-01-21T04:59:44.835+13:002020-01-21T04:59:44.835+13:00It took him well over a year before he noticed my ...It took him well over a year before he noticed my article about the historicity of Jesus. The annoying thing is that Carrier is so wildly popular with people online that his response to my article is now the third thing that comes up when you type my name in Google, right after my own website and my Quora account, and I'm pretty sure his one article gets at least as many views in a day as my Spencer McDanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14784602880680601679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-13661496735908387892020-01-21T00:13:45.149+13:002020-01-21T00:13:45.149+13:00Cheers, but it's been three years, and no bite...Cheers, but it's been three years, and no bite so far. To be honest if he did bite I'd take it as a sign of respectability. Anyway I haven't had many cranks in the 4+ years I've been writing these posts, but when they have turned up, I've found it encouraing more than anything else. :-)Peter Gainsfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448862214081111386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-19022345143184285772020-01-20T20:34:59.843+13:002020-01-20T20:34:59.843+13:00I would recommend being extremely careful about me...I would recommend being extremely careful about mentioning Richard Carrier. His fans are everywhere on the internet and some of them are willing to report even the slightest mention of him back to him. I wrote an article on my very obscure, seldom-read blog about the historicity of Jesus in which I mentioned Carrier by name exactly one time. Naturally, word somehow got around to Carrier himself Spencer McDanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14784602880680601679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-15070430929601377712017-02-20T14:46:29.252+13:002017-02-20T14:46:29.252+13:00Oof, and I didn't address your point about Ado...Oof, and I didn't address your point about Adonis being shown with Persephone. The textual sources consistently have him time-sharing with Persephone and Aphrodite already *before* his death, so that scene wouldn't show anything by itself I fear.<br /><br />Four replies? Serves you right for raising tricky points.Peter Gainsfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448862214081111386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-73073097201571030592017-02-20T14:43:18.184+13:002017-02-20T14:43:18.184+13:00As yet another postscript: in http://www.jstor.org...As yet another postscript: in http://www.jstor.org/stable/40265000, at pp. 235-6, Kretschmer also cites a 4th century south Italian vase showing Adonis (he claims) with an inscription ͰΑΔΩ..Σ, i.e. ͰΑΔΩ[ΝΙ]Σ with a heta. You know your art far better than I ever will -- does this ring any bells, by any chance?<br /><br />(Less fortunately, Kretschmer draws a comparison with Κάβειροι, which was Peter Gainsfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448862214081111386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-19156311346267114352017-02-20T14:17:29.708+13:002017-02-20T14:17:29.708+13:00I should clarify: it's Kretschmer that opts fo...I should clarify: it's Kretschmer that opts for Ἅδωνις. (And it's not like we'd be able to tell the difference between Ἅδωνις and Ἄδωνις in Sappho...). I'm not really convinced, but I don't find the Semitic derivation very compelling either.Peter Gainsfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448862214081111386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-36361960354720769922017-02-20T14:14:41.500+13:002017-02-20T14:14:41.500+13:00Thanks for the reference, I'm annoyed I missed...Thanks for the reference, I'm annoyed I missed that. I've added in a couple of changes (can't work out how to annotate them as additions, though, so I'm afraid there's no transparency in the editing process.)<br /><br />Adonis' name: yes, standard opinion is that it comes from 'adon (even Hesychius thought that).<br /><br />I'm not averse, exactly, to seeing AdonisPeter Gainsfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448862214081111386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-64907100205290186692017-02-18T20:29:22.254+13:002017-02-18T20:29:22.254+13:00The presence of Persephone on the vases (named, in...The presence of Persephone on the vases (named, in at least once instance, as I recall) strongly suggests that he's dead at the time (how else did he meet her?) but it comes slightly short of proving it, I suppose. There are also ones where he's rising out of the ground, but I can't find them on Beazley so I suspect they're South Italian (Gina Salapata from Massey spoke about Theo Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01401980925289786235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-37276567010771295452017-02-17T15:01:52.438+13:002017-02-17T15:01:52.438+13:00On reflection, I shouldn't have listed Inanna ...On reflection, I shouldn't have listed Inanna + Dumuzi as time-sharing: I was accepting what I was reading too blindly. Really what happens, unless I've missed something, is that Inanna dies and returns once; Dumuzi just dies.Peter Gainsfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448862214081111386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-32627626839075337242017-02-17T14:53:34.822+13:002017-02-17T14:53:34.822+13:00If those are the worst problems with this, I'm...If those are the worst problems with this, I'm relieved! For Adonis as time-sharing, I'm citing Theocritus as the earliest evidence for that happening *after his death*. Or is the pottery evidence clear on that too?<br /><br />I can't tell how far I'm sticking my neck out with the implication that Adonis is originally a Greek story. At least, I haven't turned up any early Peter Gainsfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448862214081111386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-54289890738822590782017-02-17T13:26:27.317+13:002017-02-17T13:26:27.317+13:00Oh - and there's pottery evidence older than T...Oh - and there's pottery evidence older than Theocritus for Adonis sharing time with Aphrodite and Persephone.Theo Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01401980925289786235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-79217201026334081482017-02-17T13:03:27.166+13:002017-02-17T13:03:27.166+13:00Evans was actually quite sure that he'd found ...Evans was actually quite sure that he'd found the "Tomb of Zeus" when he excavated the peak sanctuary on Iouktas, and that notion hasn't entirely left the scholarship, unfortunately.<br /><br />I'm also a bit curious about a couple things in your taxonomy - why is Theseus listed as a god who dies and returns? Is this a reference to his ill-fated attempt at Persephone with Theo Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01401980925289786235noreply@blogger.com