tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post4554000697550612935..comments2024-03-25T08:41:57.698+13:00Comments on Kiwi Hellenist: Colours in Homer #2: the wine-dark seaPeter Gainsfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17448862214081111386noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-68467103530255142782019-09-06T07:18:44.507+12:002019-09-06T07:18:44.507+12:00This is a fascinating blog!
I wonder what wine loo...This is a fascinating blog!<br />I wonder what wine looked like in a Greek drinking cup (like this https://collection.maas.museum/object/166498#&gid=1&pid=3 ) --I would think quite a bit deeper and more opaque than in glass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-91269159369112461412019-03-15T13:43:46.909+13:002019-03-15T13:43:46.909+13:00The big Liddell does give as a definition of οἰνάς...The big Liddell does give as a definition of οἰνάς "a wild pigeon of the colour οἰνωπός, the rock-dove, Columba livia." Yet the Latin name for the stock-dove, columba oenas, does of course pay homage to the Greek word. Aristotle (History of Animals V) says that the οἰνάς is larger than the περιστερᾶ, or rock-dove.(Noted as much in the first anonymous comment here.) Such a distinctionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-25577300043475397032018-09-29T16:48:15.357+12:002018-09-29T16:48:15.357+12:00I wonder if, corrigendum notwithstanding, it reall...I wonder if, corrigendum notwithstanding, it really is 'wine-faced' and means something like 'drunken sea', with connotations of heavy swells and stormy seas. Nothing to do with colour. Of course, this doesn't explain why it's used with oxen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-60560082737860402572017-04-28T14:48:33.089+12:002017-04-28T14:48:33.089+12:00I beg your pardon for neglecting this comment over...I beg your pardon for neglecting this comment over the last week: busy busy.<br /><br />Your conjecture is a nice one, and sounds plausible, GIVEN my idea -- it's just that my idea is really just a speculation. If we can find some evidence to support your conjecture, it'd also support the speculation (and I'd like that).<br /><br />In the year I've had to think about this, I'dPeter Gainsfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448862214081111386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-29795339354354301292017-04-22T12:57:02.979+12:002017-04-22T12:57:02.979+12:00Just got here via a Twitter link; if a random comm...Just got here via a Twitter link; if a random comment on a year-old post is okay, I have some thoughts.<br /><br />Why couldn't ἐφ᾽ αἴθοπα πόντον have developed as a formula for use in a different part of the line? E.g. a line-beginning formula with a break at the regular "masculine" caesura:<br /><br />οὔδ᾽ ὅ γ᾽ ἐφ᾽ αἴθοπα πόντον ἔβη μετὰ τοῖς ἑτάροισιν<br /><br />(an invented Craig Russellhttps://twitter.com/craigwatchmovienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-68605652621941116282016-03-31T15:39:59.953+13:002016-03-31T15:39:59.953+13:00I apologise: I missed this comment until now, as I...I apologise: I missed this comment until now, as I hadn't looked at the page that notified me of comments awaiting moderation. Oops.<br /><br />The Aristotle snippet certainly makes it clear that οἰνωπόν is a colour term. But what Hesychius is emphasising is that οἰνωπόν is *dark*. I don't see that in the Aristotle. (Unless there's a variety of rock dove that's darker than the Peter Gainsfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448862214081111386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1918995924244969903.post-36592921286292329172016-02-01T16:20:40.690+13:002016-02-01T16:20:40.690+13:00What do you make of Aristotle in Athenaeus 9 (394A...What do you make of Aristotle in Athenaeus 9 (394A): "ἡ μὲν οὖν οἰνάς, φησὶν ὁ Ἀριστοτέλης, μείζων ἐστὶ τῆς περιστερᾶς, χρῶμα δ᾽ ἔχει οἰνωπόν..." ("So the rock dove, Aristotle says, is bigger than the peristera, and has an oinopon colour"). <br />That seems to push Hesychios' gloss back to the fourth century BC (Seems! I can only find Aristotle himself talking about size, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com